Exetools  

Go Back   Exetools > General > General Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-27-2004, 01:54
Rhodium
 
Posts: n/a
Different levels software can be run at?

Can someone help me get a whole picture of the different levels software can work at?

my guess.

1. Application level
2. System level
3. Device level

Is this right?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-27-2004, 03:18
least
 
Posts: n/a
If you mean privilege levels, there are four of them (ring3-ring0) - when speaking of Intel 80X86 with X>2
In fact Windows systems use just two of them - ring3 (apps) and ring0 (system, drivers...). In ring3 you can't do some things (privileged) so that is why everyone digging deep must be in ring 0.
Regards,
least
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-27-2004, 03:20
MrCracking
 
Posts: n/a
Rhodium

Thats how I understand it.

1) Device drivers interface hardware to the operating system
2) Operating system provides services
3) Applications use the services provided by the O/S

Sounds simple until you try to fix something!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-29-2004, 12:14
ntwizard
 
Posts: n/a
Least..

What about Ring 1 components (Network stack, video).

Also don't forget about user, kernel, gdi.. Because these are the fundimental DLL's that most hardware and software used (thunked) when the other parts of the device drivers or programs would explode and cause blue screens.

NT 3.x had these DLL's loaded in Ring 1; NT 4.x moved them to Ring 0 for speed but sacrificed stability. But MS moved these back to Ring 1, and figured out how to get back the stability of NT 3.x and the speed of loading like NT 4.x ...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-29-2004, 17:28
least
 
Posts: n/a
Thanks ntwizard, this fact is new for me, I really thought that Win uses just Ring 0 and 3.
Regards,
least
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-29-2004, 22:40
ntwizard
 
Posts: n/a
Least,

I can thanks Jeff Richter for teaching me about Windows NT software and hardware architecture (NT Internals) while I worked for Intel..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-24-2004, 01:51
_kin_
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwizard
Least..

What about Ring 1 components (Network stack, video).

Also don't forget about user, kernel, gdi.. Because these are the fundimental DLL's that most hardware and software used (thunked) when the other parts of the device drivers or programs would explode and cause blue screens.

NT 3.x had these DLL's loaded in Ring 1; NT 4.x moved them to Ring 0 for speed but sacrificed stability. But MS moved these back to Ring 1, and figured out how to get back the stability of NT 3.x and the speed of loading like NT 4.x ...
Oops, I think you are wrong. NT in all versions use only two level (R0 - R3 on Intel) becouse NT initially it designed not only for Intel (PPC and MIPS).
But OS/2 use Ring 1 level in some parts
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-24-2004, 04:07
ntwizard
 
Posts: n/a
I really don't so..

Jeff Richter the author of many Windows 32 programming manuals taught me this in the Advanced Windows Hardware Architecture classes I took while I was working at Intel...

It is also in Helen Custer's Inside Windows NT..

Since Windows NT still has compatability with OS/2, all three rings would be used..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-24-2004, 18:23
gooboo
 
Posts: n/a
OS/2 Warp uses three rings.
ring3 - Application
ring2 - IOPL (ex Presentation Driver)
ring1 - not used
ring0 - Kernel, Physical/Virtual Driver
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-27-2004, 22:09
_kin_
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwizard
I really don't so..

Jeff Richter the author of many Windows 32 programming manuals taught me this in the Advanced Windows Hardware Architecture classes I took while I was working at Intel...

It is also in Helen Custer's Inside Windows NT..

Since Windows NT still has compatability with OS/2, all three rings would be used..
Windows NT has limited compatibility with OS/2 (16 bit app only, no any privileged code like IOPL modules/dlls). OS/2 subsystem run only in Ring-3 like
VDM (DOS)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 05:57.


Always Your Best Friend: Aaron, JMI, ahmadmansoor, ZeNiX, chessgod101
( Since 1998 )