Starforce 3 - The gravestone?

[dyn!o]

Pyrae: sorry, I didn't know about "Starfuckers" job. But what paid my attention was the way of this relase - the original game files stay untouched. I have loaded original Xpand Rally binaries and it still works with the relase because they cracked Starforce engine, not game. Anyway, they unpacked game files too... for what? I don't know. Maybe for fun, maybe they want to show something...

I also completely agree with your sentence: "he way to go in the future, when 'real' unpacking simply becomes too much puzzle work". It's wise indeed. Unpacking every SF protected software means a lot of work (unless someone develop a generic unpacker) so, it's wiser to find an generic idea like Starforce engine cracking. Then, one crack can work for many StarForce protected games. I even wonder if this one could work? Anyone can try?

Peleon: I coldn't believe too. I was testing the game on all the possible combinations. Only to find an hole in this relase. But the only things I found were more silly messages about Techland and Starforce inside the game.

[jonwil]

When will these highly paid copy-protection-coders realize that for all their expertise, they still cant beat the crackers?

Is there ANY copy protection that relies on you having an origonal disk that has yet to be broken? (i.e. such that you cant use the software with a copyied disk + a crack or whatever)

[dyn!o]

Jonwil: Well, probably never. Guess why? Because it's about money, my friend. Money change. Change many of us.

And if it comes to the second part of your question: no. Uncracked protection so far doesn't exist.

[jonwil]

The real question is whether a game with copy protection makes more total $ than the same game would without protection. (and therefore validating the argument about copy protection actually resulting in more sales)
Bearing in mind that all this fancy protection and anti-debugging stuff probobly costs the publishers a lot of money.

well even if a copy protection is expensive it will pay out...
most games which are protected by SF3 will be cracked in 2-6 months
and some of them will never be cracked.
the first 6-8 weeks after a game launch are important because in this
time the big money is done...

[dyn!o]

"most games which are protected by SF3 will be cracked in 2-6 months"
With all respect my friend: discussed relase date is 3 weeks after the game appeared in shops. Why are you saying "will be"?

"and some of them will never be cracked. "
I have never heard about uncracked software (including game), did you? Sometimes we can find a rare software which stay uncracked - not because of protection strength but specific type (engineering, architect, astro, etc.). Even if for some games cracks don't exist, you can mount MDF images and play this game without crack (like Toca2).

"the first 6-8 weeks after a game launch are important because in this time the big money is done..."
I thought the same... but in the past
Why that's wrong? Because the money from first 6-8 weeks are usually about 30% of whole incomings. Do you know what's the title in the first best 15 selling games in my country? Ravenshield 3 - 2 years old game. Look at Amazon or your local stores. How many one year old games did you found? I bet many. Do you think the store keeps them just to make the hall looks better? Nope, they keep them because they sells.

Let's take another example: Xpand Rally. Techland didn't relase it yet in the USA, Spain, Holland, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Greece, etc., etc.... Then how first 6-8 weeks can be critical for them? Just imagine losses in the USA only - the biggest game market on the world.

So, when really big money come?
They are rendered during whole a so called "game-life time" (my personall opinion).

Think about it.

>With all respect my friend: discussed relase date is 3 weeks after the >game appeared in shops. Why are you saying "will be"?

Ok ok...calm down There are some games which were cracked
"very" fast, but there are games protected with SF3 which aren't
cracked for months, like e.g. D-Day and some other low budget
games ( ok for those no one really wants them


>Even if for some games cracks don't exist, you can mount MMD >images and play this game without crack (like Toca2).

Well i think that's not the point, for most safedisc/securom protected
games you will find a clone but you will find a seperate crack too. Ok
the need for a crack isn't that big if you can clone a game...


>Let's take another example: Xpand Rally. Techland didn't relase it yet >in the USA, Spain, Holland, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Greece, etc., >etc.... Then how first 6-8 weeks can be critical for them? Just >imagine losses in the USA only - the biggest game market on the >world.

>So, when really big money come?
>They are rendered during whole a so called "game-life time" (my >personall opinion).

good point...make sense...well one other thing why they protecting
their games is to prevent videostore-lamers to make simple copies of
their products...

Originally Posted by dyn!o

I have never heard about uncracked software (including game), did you?

Yes, try to find some workaround for game Beyond Divinity (second part of the great game Divine Divinity) and I am not talking about that solutions that you mentioned in your first post like unplugging ide cables of CD-ROM drive...
I have been searching for other solution for some time but without any success..
It would be great of Ultima release some info about their method but I think they won't cause it should help the developers to improve SF3.. and this is probably the reason why were stopped some projects like SafeDisc v1 & v2 generic unpackers..
Regards.

[Kameo]

Hat off to Ultima, respect, nothing more to say.

[niom]

Originally Posted by dyn!o

I have loaded original Xpand Rally binaries and it still works with the relase because they cracked Starforce engine, not game

the only way to make this possible is to crack the starforce device drivers.

if they did this, can you please send windows\system32\drivers\prodrv06.sys and windows\system32\drivers\prohlp02.sys as an attachment to this thread?

thxalot

[dyn!o]

Peleon: unfortunately we won't. Starforce protection, like all other CD protections, doesn't allow to use it on your own. You have to use server-like wizard and protect your files online. It's a good idea indeed.

Niom: I see you know the structure of Starforce . That's very good, but prodrv06.sys and prohlp02.sys don't count in this game because they stay untouched (in original form). If you know Starforce basis then you should know that it contains other very important file. Tell me which one? .

Regards.

hehe some dll come into my mind

if they have done it that way they really had to spend a lot of time
reversing it and patching it against all this paranoiac checks SF uses...

[niom]

Originally Posted by dyn!o

If you know Starforce basis then you should know that it contains other very important file

theres always a protect.dll which contains usermode protection stuff, but you said that you have used original binaries ?!

and you said

Originally Posted by dyn!o

it's wiser to find an generic idea like Starforce engine cracking. Then, one crack can work for many StarForce protected games.

thats why i thought the drivers were patched (because they are the only common sf3 component)

or do i miss something?

[dyn!o]

Nice shot.

Every Starforce protected soft contains protect.dll. Last months Starforce freaks are trying to mess a little by changing its name (for instance: protect.dll in Xpand Rally is named xpandrally.bin). I don't know why and I don't know what do they count for.

Niom: Let's see what I wrote:

"...I have loaded original Xpand Rally binaries and it still works..."
I tried to say that the original files (chromeengine2.dll and xpandrally.exe) don't have to be cracked because the modification of xpandrally.bin (protect.dll) was enough.

Drivers are the only common Starforce 3 components? For sure, but don't miss protect.dll.

Regards.

Originally Posted by dyn!o

Nice shot.

Every Starforce protected soft contains protect.dll. Last months Starforce freaks are trying to mess a little by changing its name (for instance: protect.dll in Xpand Rally is named xpandrally.bin). I don't know why and I don't know what do they count for.

They've been doing that forever. It's up to the developer to decide what to rename it to. The dll itself still reports itself as 'protect.dll' in its export table.

Originally Posted by dyn!o

Niom: Let's see what I wrote:

"...I have loaded original Xpand Rally binaries and it still works..."
I tried to say that the original files (chromeengine2.dll and xpandrally.exe) don't have to be cracked because the modification of xpandrally.bin (protect.dll) was enough.

Drivers are the only common Starforce 3 components? For sure, but don't miss protect.dll.

Regards.

Then the crack is not as interesting (even though it is still impressive) protect.dll changes from game to game - the same effort that was put into this particular game will have to be repeated on others. A driver crack, if it existed, would activate all other games too... which is probably why niom got interested