Exetools  

Go Back   Exetools > General > General Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-24-2020, 21:44
TmC TmC is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 328
Rept. Given: 1
Rept. Rcvd 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Rcvd at 22 Times in 16 Posts
TmC Reputation: 15
Extract Private Key Informations from Smart-Card

Good Morning to everyone.

I am starting this topic to ask some unusual informations about tools that might be able to help to extract Private-Key informations from Smart-Cards.

Backgrounds:

I live not far (but not near) to my parents'. Since they are aging, it's been some years that I'm having them apply for online services (even if they don't even know how to turn on a PC) so that I can help them in everyday life while being away (bank account problems and documentation, utilities bills and contracts, sanitary inspections and certifications and so on).
This way, they simply call me and, with the credentials, the aid of a secondary phone number to generate OTPs from and a VNC installed on the PC I configured in their home, I've always been able to accomplish all of the required tasks.

In these last years, in my country, the government is beginning to issue NFC ID Cards, Sanitary Smart Cards and Multilevel Identity Checks (which do always require something physical for most operations) which are beginning to pose serious issues to this form of "telematic assistance", since I can no more operate the way I used before.
What was easy to accomplish, simply sending scanned ID Card or Sanitary ID, now creates lots of problems, since a physical card is required and, differently from OTPs, there are no software tokens or software vaults to load the certificates into.

As for the moment, the only solution I found, is to involve them the process only as little as it is needed by purchasing a NFC and Smard-Card lector, connecting remotely to their PC and asking them to put onto/into the card as I need it.
This will obviously work as long as they'll be able to walk, talk and understand. Any problem that might compromise their ability to do such things, might also cause me not to be able to remotely help them anymore.

I obviously know that the security of the private key is what it's all about, otherwise Digital IDs would be totally useless, but I also know that hackers and crackers don't stay there watching without doing anything, so the question:

Is someone able to point me out some tools, documentation or other that might help me trying to pry out, in a non destructive way, the private key from a Smart Card/NFC Card?

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-25-2020, 16:04
user1 user1 is offline
Family
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: OUT
Posts: 1,041
Rept. Given: 547
Rept. Rcvd 120 Times in 67 Posts
Thanks Given: 695
Thanks Rcvd at 566 Times in 337 Posts
user1 Reputation: 41
not think anyone have that info will make public here....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Gave Reputation+1 to user1 For This Useful Post:
Avi_RE (11-26-2023)
  #3  
Old 05-25-2020, 20:55
arthur plank arthur plank is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 120
Rept. Given: 28
Rept. Rcvd 22 Times in 14 Posts
Thanks Given: 21
Thanks Rcvd at 68 Times in 29 Posts
arthur plank Reputation: 22
I'm glad that banks have strong security and hope they make it stronger.

When my parents got old they gave me 'power of attorney' so I could legitimately access their accounts. Here in the UK, it was cheap and simple. Maybe you could consider this option.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-25-2020, 21:43
TmC TmC is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 328
Rept. Given: 1
Rept. Rcvd 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Rcvd at 22 Times in 16 Posts
TmC Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by arthur plank View Post
When my parents got old they gave me 'power of attorney' so I could legitimately access their accounts. Here in the UK, it was cheap and simple. Maybe you could consider this option.
Actually, the main problem are not bank accounts, since for that ones the OTPs generators are software and done via the bank APP.
Once activated on a different phone (mine has my account activated and cannot be used with other accounts), it generates all the codes needed for every operation.

At the moment, the main problem is the Sanitary ID Smart Card, which is required to book medical inspections, to download blood examination and other reports and to request medical recipes from the doctor.
All these activities can be performed in person or via the internet with a valid Sanitary ID Card inserted into the reader.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-26-2020, 02:42
virus virus is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 55
Rept. Given: 3
Rept. Rcvd 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanks Given: 17
Thanks Rcvd at 17 Times in 11 Posts
virus Reputation: 2
That should be not possible if correctly implemented. Even physical attacks on chips are very difficult and expensive (not to mention that always are destructive).

_https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301317714_A_Survey_on_Chip_to_System_Reverse_Engineering
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to virus For This Useful Post:
niculaita (06-07-2020)
  #6  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:38
phroyt phroyt is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 77
Rept. Given: 0
Rept. Rcvd 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks Given: 35
Thanks Rcvd at 106 Times in 40 Posts
phroyt Reputation: 8
Everything is possible with right tools and best approach.

Look this, may bring some ideas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJFnYBJJiuQ
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to phroyt For This Useful Post:
niculaita (06-07-2020)
  #7  
Old 05-26-2020, 17:58
Shub-Nigurrath's Avatar
Shub-Nigurrath Shub-Nigurrath is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Obscure Kadath
Posts: 919
Rept. Given: 60
Rept. Rcvd 419 Times in 94 Posts
Thanks Given: 68
Thanks Rcvd at 328 Times in 100 Posts
Shub-Nigurrath Reputation: 400-499 Shub-Nigurrath Reputation: 400-499 Shub-Nigurrath Reputation: 400-499 Shub-Nigurrath Reputation: 400-499 Shub-Nigurrath Reputation: 400-499
what you ask is a specific hardware hacking context .. this public document explains several tecniques, for smartcards is exactly the same

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-630.html
__________________
Ŝħůb-Ňìĝùŕřaŧħ ₪)
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't
http://www.accessroot.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-26-2020, 18:11
chants chants is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 724
Rept. Given: 35
Rept. Rcvd 48 Times in 30 Posts
Thanks Given: 666
Thanks Rcvd at 1,050 Times in 475 Posts
chants Reputation: 48
Yes if a proper cryptographically secure software solution is used which for some reason has proved difficult in the past, then attacking the hardware directly is the only option.

On the other hand, building a mechanical card insertion and removal device which you can control remotely would probably be easier and quite clever to say the least. Not as streamlined as having a private key, but a small electronics project should make it so a person does not have to directly handle the card but will still be able to retrieve it out of such contraption.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Gave Reputation+1 to chants For This Useful Post:
niculaita (06-07-2020)
The Following User Says Thank You to chants For This Useful Post:
niculaita (06-07-2020)
  #9  
Old 05-27-2020, 03:36
phroyt phroyt is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 77
Rept. Given: 0
Rept. Rcvd 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks Given: 35
Thanks Rcvd at 106 Times in 40 Posts
phroyt Reputation: 8
I can suggest another humble solution:
USB Redirector

Install the server on your parents machine and using ngrok.com you can point the client on your machine to given address.

[Parents + USB Redirector + NGrok Agent] <=>
[Your Machine + USB Redirector Client]

Now you have local access to all USBs on the host.

Running USB Client with NGrok:
https://imgur.com/hNu5Xb9

Running Host with NGrok (Green console is a running proxy):
https://imgur.com/Cp0KG4O

Last edited by phroyt; 05-27-2020 at 03:42.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to phroyt For This Useful Post:
h8er (05-27-2020), niculaita (06-07-2020), uel888 (05-28-2020)
  #10  
Old 05-27-2020, 22:43
bolo2002 bolo2002 is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 614
Rept. Given: 111
Rept. Rcvd 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanks Given: 217
Thanks Rcvd at 238 Times in 152 Posts
bolo2002 Reputation: 14
What happen if your parents lose the card or if it's not working anymore?
they ask to official places to get a new card no?then say to your parents to send it to you and you can do the work yourself,maybe i've don't understood correctly.
__________________
I like this forum!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-07-2020, 06:47
luki luki is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 25
Rept. Given: 0
Rept. Rcvd 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks Given: 8
Thanks Rcvd at 5 Times in 5 Posts
luki Reputation: 1
smart card gets the pin and the operation you want done and returns you the information, it happens on the chip thats why theres practially no option to do it - unless using some proxies etc, but the costs of "hacking" a simcard/smartcard are high
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-08-2020, 06:55
jonwil jonwil is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 387
Rept. Given: 2
Rept. Rcvd 21 Times in 9 Posts
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Rcvd at 65 Times in 34 Posts
jonwil Reputation: 21
Given how totally illegal (as in probably go-to-jail-if-you-are-caught illegal) doing any kind of messing with national ID cards is (drivers license/passport/etc) I wouldn't think its something appropriate for this forum.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2020, 00:21
TmC TmC is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 328
Rept. Given: 1
Rept. Rcvd 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Rcvd at 22 Times in 16 Posts
TmC Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwil View Post
Given how totally illegal (as in probably go-to-jail-if-you-are-caught illegal) doing any kind of messing with national ID cards is (drivers license/passport/etc) I wouldn't think its something appropriate for this forum.
Do you think we are in the stitch & crochet forum? Maybe cracking is legal?

And, by the way, did you think that there might be lots of licit reasons that might need such question?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-23-2023, 08:50
tK! tK! is offline
Family
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 171
Rept. Given: 7
Rept. Rcvd 121 Times in 34 Posts
Thanks Given: 31
Thanks Rcvd at 76 Times in 44 Posts
tK! Reputation: 100-199 tK! Reputation: 100-199
@TmC

i think nowdays in 2023 with lots of Hardware Hacking Tools/Kits )

it can be done as 123 )

Good Luck
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PC Card & CardBus Memory theGate General Discussion 0 08-24-2006 07:26


All times are GMT +8. The time now is 16:11.


Always Your Best Friend: Aaron, JMI, ahmadmansoor, ZeNiX, chessgod101
( 1998 - 2024 )